zvolts
Premium
join:2005-02-04
Mikado, MI
 ·HughesNet Satellit..
 ·Charter Pipeline
1 edit |  [HN9000] Grounding question
I had my HN9000 installed about 6 months ago and everything has been working nicely. I'm getting advertised speeds and a good solid connection. Based on a couple of posts here I made a mental note to go back and verify that the installer properly grounded the system when he installed it. He didn't. My bad for not knowing to check when he installed the system.
So last weekend I purchased an 8' ground rod and ran a #6 solid copper electrical wire that I had laying around from the grounding lug on the dish mounting assembly down to the new rod. He didn't interrupt the data cable with a grounding block before the cable enters the house either. So I'll get some connectors and a grounding block and run that ground wire back to the new ground rod too. It would a big job for me to connect the new ground to the houses existing electrical service ground (opposite ends of a large house). How big a deal is not doing so? |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY | »[HN7000S] Am I grounded?
//greg// |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
·HughesNet Satellit..
1 edit | reply to zvolts
I had a long thread here once with the same subject.
Mine is grounded at the Dish.The cable then runs underground to my House and then plugs/screws into the modem.The Modem (HN9000) is grounded at the Electric Wall Plug with the Green/Earth Ground.(Three Prong Plug).Which in turn is grounded to your Breaker/junction box.
Here is some pics of my dish's wires.
The Grounding Block
The Small black wire is the ground wire to the grounding rod.
I used a 4 ft Grounding rod,the type for electric fence chargers and such.Keep in mind also you have a freaking metal pole 2 feet in the ground.
The type of coaxial cable the installer used had a ground attached to it and it continues on up to the dish.
The LNB
See the little black wire,thats the ground down to the ground block,then continues to the grounding rod.
I have seen it stated that you need a wire to your Breaker box/Junction Box grounding rod.I thought that it is silly to do so and over kill,at least in my installation's case.The system is grounded by the 3 prong plugin at the wall and by the grounding rod at the pole with a seperate grounding rod.
Edit* Forgot to mention my HN9000 is 85ft away from the dish.There are no breaks in the cable between the grounding block and the modem.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
4 edits | Very bad idea to mount cable ground block on polemount. That cross-circuits signal ground with electrical ground. To be safe and effective, they must be isolated until reaching the common ground via separate paths. Besides, both the NEC and Hughes clearly specify that the block belongs where the cable passes through the structure.
The modem is NOT "grounded at the Electric Wall Plug with the Green/Earth Ground.(Three Prong Plug)". Only the AC side of the power brick is grounded there. The modem itself is strictly a DC device, and is grounded - via cable shielding - through the cable block . The modem then provides DC power for the TRIA electronics - via the cable center conductor. The TRIA in turn sees ground - via the cable sheathing - through the cable block. This configuration is designed to provide equal ground potential to both modem and TRIA. Understand that's strictly signal ground.
Hooking the GND bond wire directly to the cable block is another no-no. Correct path is transmitter GND screw to antenna bracket - then polemount to common ground. That's the electrical ground. Different animal. Your wiring shortcut cross-circuits signal and electrical grounds, now causing dissimilar signal ground potential between modem and TRIA electronics . You've also provided a direct path for lightning to ride the cable sheathing - straight into the back side of your modem.
A 4' ground rod is neither approved (by either Hughes or the NEC) nor effective. Neither is a "a freaking metal pole 2 feet in the ground.". Nor does the combination represent an approved ground either. And not bonding any supplemental ground electrode to the structure's common ground is another code violation.
//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009 |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
·HughesNet Satellit..
1 edit | reply to zvolts
Then why install it this way if it poses such a big hazard to the consumer?Hughesnet signed off on this installation.If they signed off on it then it must be their way.
Plus you state much technical specs.I know you have stated else where that you (grohgreg) have years of experience in Satellite communications.I respect that,but have to ask if what you state above is in the Hughesnet installation guide lines or from personal experience?
I will simple state it like this.No consumer based Installation of satellite equipment that I have ever seen has had a separate ground running from the dish to the Junction Box/Outside drop.Now I am not an expert nor a installer.
However I am experienced in electrical wiring.It seems redundant to me to have a Ground at the Dish/pole,a ground at the house and linking the one at the house to the junction box Main ground.
Also Grohgreg,did you help design the HN9000?I ask this because every piece of tech equipment I have ever seen has had a "common" ground.The HN9000 is in essence a "fancy" PC.The motherboard on the HN9000 common grounds to the wall outlet.Just like a power supply does in a computer.
One other thing,if the grounding has to pass code but it actually would not,shouldn't Hughesnet stand responsible for crappy installation techniques?I mean if they contract a installer and that installer does it wrong and my house burnt down,they would be responsible.
So your saying,
-don't mount the ground block on the pole due to risk of lightning running in along the cable to the modem?
-ground the Dish+Arm+Transmitter at the pole with a 8 ft grounding rod then also run a seperate length of electric wire to the MAIN grounding rod of the house?
-I should Cut my cable where it enters the house,to install the grounding block?
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My problem with the whole thing is this.
-Hughesnet signed off on the install
-The installer never showed up with a grounding rod and there is no way in hell I am buying one when they said it is free installation.
-the installer told me it was ok to mount the grounding cable block on the pole
-If grounding is such a big issue then why does Hughesnet not stand behind the work?
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
4 edits | said by Tweakbl  : Hughesnet signed off on the install The installer never showed up with a grounding rod and there is no way in hell I am buying one when they said it is free installation. the installer told me it was ok to mount the grounding cable block on the pole If grounding is such a big issue then why does Hughesnet not stand behind the work? - Explain how you feel "Hughesnet signed off on the install". That makes no sense.
- for standard installs, the installer is only required to provide up to 100' or approved grounding wire. Nowhere is it written that he or Hughes provides a grounding electrode (rod) as part of the standard installation.
- Dead simple, the installer was wrong
- they will. Complain to tech support. If you present a convincing argument, they'll eventually get an installer out there to fix it. But first it helps if you know what you're talking about . I suggest at a minimum that you read the grounding section of your installation manual. The installers have much more detailed instructions. They're bound by Hughes FSB (field service bulletin) 050518D (or current) as consistent with national/state/local electrical codes. Photos help, and yours should justify a free service call to remedy your grounding errors.
If I was closer, I'd just come over and help you fix it yourself.
By the way, I just bought a new FN Five SeveN (USG). Have you had a chance to play with one of those yet?
//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009 |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
·HughesNet Satellit..
1 edit | reply to zvolts
Ok I will read up on the Install a bit more. 
-Hughesnet requires the installer to take pics of the install and I did sign a paper.I thought that since the dude installing had to take pics that this was a verification of sorts.
-I read the installation manual part about what they are required to provide in between the above posts.You are correct.They do not provide a ground rod,but the probably should.IMO
-I probably will complain to support,as I think I see what your saying about the signal being grounded and the cable having a separate ground
-Where does one download the Hughes FSB (field service bulletin) 050518D (or current)?Is it at the Knowledge base?
If I understand correctly....is this a proper grounding for this system?
How well does the FN Five Seven fit in the hand?I have rather large hands and need a full grip or it feels like I would drop most pistols.That is one Bad gun.Armor piercing in a hand held package.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
4 edits | said by Tweakbl :If I understand correctly....is this a proper grounding for this system? Close, but no cigar. The TRIA electronics are isolated from their housings, so they seek ground via the cable shield. That's a given. But in the case of non-metallic dishes, the feedarm (a potential lightning rod) is electrically isolated. Since the metal TRIA housings are bolted to the metal feedarm, a bond between the metal GND screw and the metal antenna bracket defeats that isolation. Static from the feedarm goes to the bracket - by default to the pole - down the ground wire (when attached) - to an authorized common ground.
In the case of your photo example, only the feedarm appears to be connected to (presumably) a common ground. But the pole itself remains isolated, grounded only by whatever contact it may make with dry concrete and a couple feet of dirt. In dry conditions, that's meaningless. The most technically correct (and safest) way is to bond the GND screw to the antenna bracket - which by contact is grounded to the pole. Then ground the pole with approved wire to the designated common ground.
The grounding FSB has been uploaded to this site many times, you should be able to find it with a simple search. If you strike out, I'll email you a copy.
said by Tweakbl :How well does the FN Five Seven fit in the hand? Very conventionally. For comparison purposes, I'm ~6'/200#. Most size L gloves are tight on me - more often than not I buy XL. And the weight is astounding; 590g dry, 802g wet.
//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009 |
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tobicat
join:2005-04-18
Tombstone, AZ | Hmmm 5.7X28 you guys planning on holding up a few armored cars or what.
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9000 spaceway III, 7000S SatMex 5 990, Dlink wirless |
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Aframe
Premium
join:2008-01-30
Uvalde, TX
·HughesNet Satellit..
| said by tobicat :Hmmm 5.7X28 you guys planning on holding up a few armored cars or what. I thought for a while that it was needed to get the installer to ground the system
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HN9000/Spaceway III,74m/1w,Elite package,XP Pro, |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
| reply to tobicat
said by tobicat :Hmmm 5.7X28 you guys planning on holding up a few armored cars or what. Aframe's supposition is a little closer. The article under discussion is basically a big bucks .twenty two on steroids.
//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009 |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to zvolts
The cartridge appears close to a 22 hornet.
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My dish and pole and the whole works is all metal,I thought that since the transmitter housing is metal,the feedarm is all metal and the dish and bracket is all metal and the ground wire comes off the transmitter then to the rod that it would be correct?
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
4 edits | said by Tweakbl :ground wire comes off the transmitter then to the rod that it would be correct? That's interesting, I've never yet seen a standard Direcway/HughesNet reflector that was solid metal. DirecTV yes, but ain't run across a metal internet dish yet. That said, I'm still in the Ku-band world. But can you actually stick a magnet on the dish, down where the feedarm attaches? If yes, that makes it even more complicated for installers to figure out how to ground which configuration.
But regardless, it's still improper to ground the feedarm/dish/pole to the cable block. Anyway you cut it, that's intermingling signal and electrical grounds. The other thing is that a ground rod at the base of the pole is redundant, since NEC requires that it be bonded to common ground anyway. Given that a simple run of approved ground wire between the pole and common is all that's called for, the rod itself represents unnecessary work and expense.
//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009 |
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tobicat
join:2005-04-18
Tombstone, AZ | Yea Greg the 9000 are all metal and the original ones like mine are really flimsy. They warn you not to do a push pull test cause you will bend the silly thing.
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9000 spaceway III, 7000S SatMex 5 990, Dlink wirless |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
| said by tobicat :Yea Greg the 9000 are all metal and the original ones like mine are really flimsy. They warn you not to do a push pull test cause you will bend the silly thing. What'd they do, take a dish from the DirecTV parts bin?
//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009 |
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tobicat
join:2005-04-18
Tombstone, AZ
| Well almost. here is the original install on mine. The installer refused to ground it at all.
The conduit you see behind it is the install for my 7000 it was done by a defense contractor and is fully inside of conduit all the way from the dish until it goes thru the wall into the house. The difference between guys that know what they are doing and those that don't.
The original install also left the bolts on the adjusting mount loose.
These are some pics I sent to hughes telling them what a good job their installer did. It has all been fixed but I had to do it myself.
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9000 spaceway III, 7000S SatMex 5 990, Dlink wirless |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to zvolts
I have a "old" super dish in my building the same exact size as the Hughes HN9000 (.74?),I was going to do the FTA TV thing with.
Yeah its completely metal.
So you need 3 grounds then?
1.On the Feed arm+Dish+Pole to a seperate Ground rod? 8 ft Ground rod
2.One from the Transmitter?To common Main House Ground rod?Have to run long wire.
3.One at the Point of Entry from the grounding block to the Main House Ground?(In my case the cable comes under my underpinning.)Again have to run a wire.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
·HughesNet Satellit..
1 edit | reply to zvolts
They left the same exact screws/bolts loose on mine to! 
I'll be back later to check on this thread.I need to mow my yard and take a few more pics of my setup.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
4 edits | reply to Tweakbl
said by Tweakbl :So you need 3 grounds then? 1.On the Feed arm+Dish+Pole to a seperate Ground rod? 8 ft Ground rod 2.One from the Transmitter?To common Main House Ground rod?Have to run long wire. 3.One at the Point of Entry from the grounding block to the Main House Ground?(In my case the cable comes under my underpinning.)Again have to run a wire. Up to 4 actually; 2 or 3 exterior, 1 interior.
1. GND screw on transmitter to bare metal contact on antenna bracket (this is technically a "bonding wire"). Typically 14ga stranded. I personally prefer copper mesh bonding strap. Note: this is optional on 100% metal configuration, mandatory for non-metallic dish
2. Mounting arm or polemount to structure's approved common ground, typically 10ga solid copper.
3. Cable block to structure's approved common ground, typically 10ga solid copper
4. approved AC ground for modem power adapter, typically pre-wired. No 2-to-3 wire adapters permitted.Since the most typical installations already have an approved common ground, supplemental ground rod are seldom necessary. If a ground rod is in fact required, it's no longer a standard installation.
//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009 |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY | reply to zvolts
In the mean time - ZVOLTS - has any of this been of assistance? Or do you have some more specific questions?
././greg.. |
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