zvolts
Premium
join:2005-02-04
Mikado, MI
 ·HughesNet Satellit..
 ·Charter Pipeline
1 edit | reply to grohgreg
Re: [HN9000] Grounding question
Ok, so I have the mounting arm to new ground rod covered (roof mount). I just grounded the transmitter to the bare metal on the mounting arm (#14 solid).
Anybody have a good website and part numbers for outdoor rated connectors and a grounding block?
Is #10 solid copper conductor adequate between new grounding rod to existing electrical service ground rod? |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to zvolts
I gotta really good idea.
Since I am upset that Hughesnets "approved" installer did not "properly" ground mine or from the sounds of it MOST systems that have been installed.If anyone has a diagram of the proper way to ground these systems maybe post it here?
I can read about it all day long but a picture,well it is easier for me to grasp. 
In the mean time I am going to look for the Hughes FSB (field service bulletin) 050518D (or current)
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
| reply to zvolts
said by zvolts  :Anybody have a good website and part numbers for outdoor rated connectors and a grounding block?
Most compression connectors are exterior rated, and you have to seal them with dielectric grease anyway. Rather than pay shipping and handling for just a handful of connectors, why not get one of those installation kits from a home improvement store? It's got a cable cutter, cable stripper, compression tool, and a handful of connectors all in one package. Just make sure the connectors are frequency swept to at least 2.2GHz (like HDTV connectors). said by zvolts :Is #10 solid copper conductor adequate between new grounding rod to existing electrical service ground rod? Ordinarily, yes. But just to be on the safe side, how many feet of wire? //greg// --
HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009 |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
| reply to Tweakbl
said by Tweakbl :I am going to look for the Hughes FSB (field service bulletin) 050518D (or current) I've got FSB_050518_01D, but the file is too big to upload here. It's emailable though, if you'd like
//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009 |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV | reply to zvolts
Sure thing I PM'ed you my email.
I am working on another pic.To illustrate proper grounding.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked |
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Aframe
Premium
join:2008-01-30
Uvalde, TX
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to grohgreg
said by grohgreg :said by Tweakbl :I am going to look for the Hughes FSB (field service bulletin) 050518D (or current) I've got FSB_050518_01D, but the file is too big to upload here. It's emailable though, if you'd like //greg// »/r0/download/1···ocks.pdf
Here is a link to FSB_050518_01D if someone wants to look at it.
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HN9000/Spaceway III,74m/1w,Elite package,XP Pro, |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV | reply to zvolts
Thanks |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
·HughesNet Satellit..
1 edit | reply to zvolts
Ok I will go ahead and post this before I look over the installation documents.
This is the way I visualized grohgreg's explanation of grounding.
I hope this one is better.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked |
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heeby jeeby
@verizon.net
| reply to zvolts
ok....we go thru this often enough. here is hughes latest REQUIREMENT for installations regarding grounding:
FROM the dish to the ground block: rg6 dual shield with 17g messenger wire. messenger wire MUST be attached to separate bolt on an UNUSED portion of the elevation slot on the back frame. period. not the lug on the transmitter, not the mount, but the elevation slot. NO "double nutting", cant add a 1/2" bolt to the elevation threaded rod, or elevation bolt. MUST be separate bolt.
the ground block MUST be in a weather proof location (indoors ONLY, not under a deck or eve) or in a weather proof enclosure. PERIOD.
from the ground block, a minimum 10g GREEN ground wire not to exceed 20 feet, to an approved bonding point. longer ground runs are acceptable with larger gauge wire per specs. approved bonding points are: structural steel (commercial buildings or trailers only, must use i-beam clamp), bonded cold water pipes within 5 feet of water pipe entering the building (must use pipe clamp, not straps), electrical box (in and outside with pan clamp), house ground wire (using split bolt), and house ground rods (using acorn bolts). NON UL-Approved bonds are NOT approved and WILL fail QA photo audits. ie, cannot use a self tapping screw with ground wire wrapped around it to structural steel. the self tapper is NOT a UL approved item.
from the ground block to the modem, rg-6 dual. the total rg6 dual limit is i think 182 feet-ish. longer runs will -by spec- require rg-6 quad, rg-11, heliax......whatever based on ifl run length.
hope this helps. |
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heeby jeeby
@verizon.net
| reply to zvolts
i also dont see any mocap on your fittings......im cant stand replacing transmitters that guys were too lazy to mocap. if i see one, i will absolutely throw a tech under the bus. there is NO excuse for not weather proofing the fittings with mocap. hughes requires ORANGE mocap. if its not orange, or not seen, it will fail qa photo audit. |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to zvolts
JUST did send a Email to customer support.
This is my email to them.
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It has recently come to my attention that I have a grounding problem between my Dish and my Modem.
I have had service for about a year or more and have just been informed by a satellite dish installer that I have a improper ground on my system.
The only ground I have is mounted to the pole the dish is mounted on and it runs through the grounding block that is mounted to the pole also.
I have no POE ground at all and the grounding block also serves as a cable connection on the pole.
From what I understand with my type of installation I need (1) One POE grounding block to ground the system/electronics/signal and (1) One other separate ground coming off the Dish itself.
Also NONE of my connectors were properly weather proofed with self fusing tape.They did use some grease on the connectors.Also my grounding block that was improperly installed was not housed in a weather resistant enclosure.I can send pictures if needed.
I hope this situation will be addressed as I am afraid of a electric fire.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
I am going to get this fixed.I noticed the weather proof tape was not on my install either This alone would make me email and complain.
As it stands,if I had my entire length of cable outta the ground and ends reversed it would match up perfect to pass a audit.
The end that has the grounding block would be on my modem end and not the dish end.Thus making it easier to ground to my trailers frame or main ground rod.
I wonder also if there can be any loss of signal or degrading and if fixing it the way you and greg have stated would give me a boost?
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
| said by Tweakbl :I wonder also if there can be any loss of signal or degrading and if fixing it the way you and greg have stated would give me a boost? Assuming no bad connectors, I wouldn't anticipate any change in signal level. The benefit you will derive from remedying your ground configuration will be in the form of increased signal stability and quite probably a lower long term error count.
//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009 |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
| reply to Tweakbl
said by Tweakbl :This is the way I visualized grohgreg's explanation of grounding. I hope this one is better. No. That one isn't workable either. Just review the FSB, perhaps the lightbulb will come on then.
//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009 |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
·HughesNet Satellit..
1 edit | reply to zvolts
Just got your email greg thanks
I will look it over,but you can bet I will pursue getting this taken care of.To be honest I have been confused about this since I posted about it back 6 months ago.Remember I am a picture kinda guy and do things hands on.Explaining it to me usually gets me moving in the right direction,but drawing me a picture gets better results.LOL
There was also a bit of confusion for me initially because some of the "older" dishes required more grounding because the were not all metal and I just could not understand the reason for running wire along metal on metal.
Studying on it a bit more I see where the main problem can be at with the Signal+cable+Modem sharing a ground with the dish.The static build up and lightening being bad enough,I do not want to replace all my machine because of lighting running in on them.Having it ALL grounded at the pole gives any stray electrical charge a direct path to my machines.
I will do it like the picture in the FSB,"Figure 13" "Antenna and Coax cable through separate grounding points."
Which basically I will buy a 8 ft Grounding rod and put it by the Dish and connect it to the back of the dish like it states.
The put the Grounding block out of the weather and run a ground to the Main House ground.
Edit-The pic I posted above,the light blue is actually the coax cable,I did not state that in the pic,sorry.I meant to make it so people would see that the light blue was the coax going to the house and the ground block would be mounted to the house.  The way it looks to me now is that the light blue is a ground wire run,it was not intended to be.
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zvolts
Premium
join:2005-02-04
Mikado, MI
·HughesNet Satellit..
·Charter Pipeline
3 edits | reply to grohgreg
said by grohgreg :Most compression connectors are exterior rated, and you have to seal them with dielectric grease anyway. Rather than pay shipping and handling for just a handful of connectors, why not get one of those installation kits from a home improvement store? It's got a cable cutter, cable stripper, compression tool, and a handful of connectors all in one package. Just make sure the connectors are frequency swept to at least 2.2GHz (like HDTV connectors). We're talking boonies here. The only home improvement store within range didn't have what I needed.
Is #10 solid copper conductor adequate between new grounding rod to existing electrical service ground rod?
Ordinarily, yes. But just to be on the safe side, how many feet of wire?
Approx. 75 feet.
Edit:
75 feet is if I stay on the outside of the house (from new grounding rod to existing service grounding rod). If I can put the grounding block inside, I can get to a copper cold water pipe or the #12 ground wire on one of the interior receptacles within 20 feet. |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
1 edit | Ok, you'll need an consumer grade installation tool kit. Here's an example, but shop around for best delivered price: »www.homenetworksupply.com/produc···86708281
Then you'll need some connectors like this: »www.summitsource.com/product_inf···_id=8538 and a ground block like this: »www.summitsource.com/3-ghz-groun···579.html
Word of caution though, putting new connectors on old cable is sometimes self-defeating. Might not be a bad idea to consider starting over with new cable while you're at it. Again, 3GHz swept RG6 would be my recommendation. I personally like Belden 1829BC, because it's flooded (suitable for direct bury).
I don't see any problem going 75' with 10ga solid copper.
//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009 |
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zvolts
Premium
join:2005-02-04
Mikado, MI | Perfect. Thank you. |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
·HughesNet Satellit..
2 edits | reply to zvolts
Well time to bump the old ground thread up a notch.
Got off the phone with "tech support".(used loosely)
My grounding they said was the contractors responsibility and since it was "out of warranty" the would have to roll a installer out to me at my expense.I asked if my equipment was out of warranty and the said "no its under warranty till Sept 13 2010,exactly 2 years from date of install"
So the Modem and Dish/Transmitter is still warrantied but the cable is not.
So I told them point blank that since they did not do it right the first time that there was no way that I was going to pay to have a installer come and fix this issue and that I could do a better job of it myself.
I had a good laugh to at the "tech rep" I spoke to.I said I had a grounding issue and gave him my case number that they had emailed me last Thursday,I also told him they said they would call me within 24 hours and its been over 48 hours ago,I told him this was a Electrical Grounding issue.To which he asked "So you need to re point your dish?" LOL
Any way long and the short of this story is this.
I am going to re do the cabling from the Point of entery into my house and I will follow the grounding and weather proofing guide lines that I got out of the FSB_050518_01D Cables and ground blocks.pdf.
I am going to run my cables like in the following pic.
Edit* I even got the original installers name and number from Hughesnet.His numbers turn up little old ladies that never heard of him and a Yellow and White pages search brings up nothing about him.I was going to contact him and see if he would stand good on his work.So far I have not been able to get in touch with him.Although his web site is still up.»appalachianmountainsatellite.com/default.htm
NOTICE-the dish on his web site front page is installed just like mine.
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zvolts
Premium
join:2005-02-04
Mikado, MI | I've got mine all grounded in half the amount of time that you've been complaining.... |
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Tweakbl
Now you Done it
join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV | reply to zvolts
Well good for you.
As such it was not my responsibility originally to ensure "proper" grounding of the equipment.I am not a installer that is certified.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked |
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