amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to Kilroy
Re: firearms
said by Kilroy  :Not personally against guns or using them on people, but without training they are more of a problem than a solution. I'd recommend finding a CCW class in your area. I agree with that. In my CCW class 12-14 years ago a couple people decided not to get their permit after the situational shooting exercise.
It's easy to think about using a gun. It's entirely different when you actually do face the shoot/don't shoot moment (maybe getting it wrong). It's a physiological experience. Some people, after experiencing it realize they'd rather just throw their money on the ground and run in the opposite direction. It's better to find that out before the moment arrives.
Mark |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
1 edit | reply to keyboard5684
said by keyboard5684 : If there are 5 guys, an AR15 will do it and leave you room to lay down some more rounds for the one hiding  Bad choice. A high-powered rifle bullet is liable to go into neighboring rooms and homes.
A pump-action 410 or 20 gauge with extended magazine and headlight built into the pump makes a decent home-defense weapon.
My next choice is a medium powered handgun round like .40 cal, 9mm, .38, or .380. But, not in an apartment. (EDIT: Unless Glaser Safety Slugs are used.).
Mark |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| reply to notworthit
said by notworthit :
You don't need a gun, you just need something that goes off and wakes you up REALLY LOUD before they get near the doors or windows. After that, a baseball bat ...
It may seem counter-intuitive, but physical resistance produces more injuries than using a firearm. Firearms have the unique property of gaining compliance from the person they're aimed at. Baseball bats, knives, etc., invite resistance (and injuries).
And then there's the matter of whether a woman is well-suited threaten physical violence. (A firearm evens the odds.).
OTOH, you don't have to worry about your kids finding the baseball bat and playing with it. Or, thieves stealing it when you're not home. Or, shooting your spouse due to mistaken identity.
Mark
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shimonmor
join:2000-12-30
Sedro Woolley, WA
·wavebroadband
| reply to swhx7
I see a couple of recommendations where people suggest their favorite semi-auto pistol. Glock or Beretta or Springfield or whatever. Those are great if you know how to use them...especially in the middle of the night and you're scared and half asleep.
If you do decide to arm yourself...get a revolver. Easy to use. The ultimate point-and-shoot interface. No safeties, no chambering of rounds, no messing around. You point, you shoot. Something in a .357 should do the trick. And maybe even a laser grip too. There are some 7 shot models out there. Sure, a semi-auto can hold a lot more rounds but if you can't hit the guy in the 7 shots then what makes you think 14 shots will help you. You'll just end up with more strays causing damage and accidental deaths. |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| reply to peterboro1
said by peterboro1 :Now excuse me I have a whiny Liberal meeting to attend. Don't be late, you wouldn't want to get "whined" at for an extended period.
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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K Patterson
Premium,MVM
join:2006-03-12
Columbus, OH | reply to swhx7
I understand that there is a new type of handgun, in appearance much like the usual semi-automatic, but in reality a double aciton weapon much like a revolver. Touted as safer, fewer misfires. Essentially a clip-fed revolver. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by K Patterson :I understand that there is a new type of handgun, in appearance much like the usual semi-automatic, but in reality a double aciton weapon much like a revolver. Touted as safer, fewer misfires. Essentially a clip-fed revolver. If you can find a link, I'd like to learn more about it.
I agree with "swhx7" that revolvers offer a peace of mind that semi-autos don't. I always worry that the magazine's spring may have faded, and will jam. Or, that the slide accumulated smegma.
OTOH, during hot Phoenix summers, nothing beats an AMT .380 backup for concealability. A 5-shot .38 revolver is about twice as bulky.
I'd like to have the reliability of a revolver with the profile of a semi-automatic. I can't imagine how such a gun would work. Maybe some kind of chain-fed ammo belt?
Mark |
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Corona
It's cool, I'm takin it back
Premium
join:2000-03-14
Aubrey, TX | reply to swhx7
what city/state do you live in? |
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K Patterson
Premium,MVM
join:2006-03-12
Columbus, OH | reply to amigo_boy
What I understand (not a gun guy) is that it feeds just like a semi, except that the hammer is not cocked. Pulling the trigger moves the hammer back then releases it, as opposed to a semi where the hammer is cocked. |
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Corona
It's cool, I'm takin it back
Premium
join:2000-03-14
Aubrey, TX
| said by K Patterson :What I understand (not a gun guy) is that it feeds just like a semi, except that the hammer is not cocked. Pulling the trigger moves the hammer back then releases it, as opposed to a semi where the hammer is cocked. not all semis are like that. Take a look at how a Glock works.
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"To be sincere, you don't have to know anything, you just say whatever makes you feel good and spin and smug circles in your tiny fucked up little head, happy as long as you're true to yourself. In other words, Sincerity is bullshit!" -Penn Jillette |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
2 edits | reply to K Patterson
said by K Patterson :What I understand (not a gun guy) is that it feeds just like a semi, except that the hammer is not cocked. Pulling the trigger moves the hammer back then releases it, as opposed to a semi where the hammer is cocked. Double-action semi-autos have been available for over 20 years. They have the ability to be cocked and locked (like a semi-auto), or self-cocking with a longer trigger pull.
That doesn't make them more reliable. Just safer. You're not walking around with a hammer raised over a live round. The double-action component has a hammer-block that's only removed when you go through the long trigger movement to cock and fire. So, it takes more effort to fire. And, no worries about dropping the gun, and transferring shock to the cartridge's primer (when the hammer is resting on the firing pin).
They still have the reliability concerns of semi-autos. Magazine springs get weak, and don't feed correctly. Dirt/grime collects inside the slide.
If you're a cop who practices at the range once a month, it's a manageable risk. But, if the gun sits unattended for 2-3 years, there's always that worry that it will jam.
Mark |
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lagged
join:2001-10-30
Narberth, PA
| reply to K Patterson
Not all semi's are always cocked - "single action" Some are double action only, where the trigger cocks and drops the hammer. Some are DA/SA, where the first shot can be double action and all the rest will be single action. Furthermore, there are striker fired guns, like a glock, that don't have hammers.
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tight lines and screaming reels |
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keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
·Teliax VOIP
 ·WestPAnet Inc.
·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
| reply to amigo_boy
Agreed. Depends where you live, how scared you are, and on your aim. A lot depends on the situation. In my house a hi-powered rifle works best.
My choice is my M1 .32 Carbine. It is lightweight, great at about 20 yards, and what I love to shoot (which makes it the best weapon for me to fire as I am best at using that particular weapon). The M1 also is small enough to move around and big enough to scare the crap out of someone.
The .32 revolver I have I had some special rounds made. It was a suggestion of my Grandfather with light loads. The idea was that the rounds would hit hard enough but not travel too far.
Shotgun has so much "spray" that I would simply not like it, just a choice. If you are going to drop a human being, you need to make sure they are dropped.
A .22 will travel an amazing amount of space. I believe 2 miles if given the space. Anything is really going to have that effect. You are correct about a shotgun though, there is more "shot" but they are likely to be taken up in your walls.
I think an alarm system is the best. A gun really should just not be used unless you really are prepared to be in a gun battle. Many will shoot back especially if you put them in that kind of position where they feel they need to. |
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Axekick
join:2005-05-01
Saint Louis, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to swhx7
You were a victim of home invasion and not merely burglary.
First I would recommend a home security system as at least one other pointed out. I would also consider a dog if your family setting allows it.
I do commend you for seeking advice and admitting some degree of ignorance on the topic rather than buying on emotion which would inevitably create additional hazards for your home.
For home protection unless you are highly skilled and trained I would recommend a shotgun over a pistol. If you are confronted in your home spontaneously, while sleeping, or unprepared it is quite challenging to accurately aim and control a pistol. Nothing like shooting at a range under ideal circumstances and where you are mentally prepared to do so.
The choice of course is yours. If a pistol I would not over analyze the caliber anything in a .357, 9mm, .40 cal or .45 cal would be more than adequate with the correct ammunition.
There is pistol ammunition designed to fragment upon impact which maximizes tissue damage to an attacker while minimizing the penetrating power should you inadvertently shoot a wall as the round will shatter rather than penetrate.
You do need to research your decision thoroughly but for now I would advise taking some type of immediate steps to secure your home. Starting with securing their entry point, then surveillance system if feasible and then I would consider a gun if you still felt insecure. |
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K Patterson
Premium,MVM
join:2006-03-12
Columbus, OH | reply to amigo_boy
Thanks (and to Lagged) as well for the education. My last practical experience was with a 1911A1, which is not exactly a modern semi! |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| reply to Axekick
said by Axekick :For home protection unless you are highly skilled and trained I would recommend a shotgun over a pistol. I recommended a shotgun too. But, after I posted I thought about one deficiency: It's not as easy to secure, while still having easy access.
One nice thing about a handgun is that you can get those little finger-operated safes that bolt to a nightstand (or whatever). They'll hold a couple .38 revolvers.
Another thing is that a long gun (rifle or shotgun) isn't as nimble moving around the house. More for an attacker to grab onto and wrestle away. A handgun has the advantage of being harder to wrestle with. You can draw it up to your chest, as you move from door to door, room to room, peeking around corners, etc.
But, a shotgun is the ultimate defensive weapon, especially when your goal is to hold your ground (not clear a house).
If it were me, I'd do the revolvers in a finger-operated safe mounted to something near the bed. (One safe on each side?). And a shotgun secured in the closet somehow. (A full safe? Or, cable lock?).
Mark |
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lagged
join:2001-10-30
Narberth, PA
| reply to K Patterson
I trust my life to my 1911 every day. Nothing wrong with it at all.
"Of course the 1911 is an outdated design. It came from an era when weapons were designed to win fights, not to avoid product liability lawsuits. It came from an era where it was the norm to learn how your weapon operated and to practice that operation until it became second nature, not to design the piece to the lowest common denominator. It came from an era in which our country tried to supply its fighting men with the best tools possible, unlike today, when our fighting men and women are issued hardware that was adopted because of international deal-making or the fact that the factory is in some well-connected congressman's district. Yes, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the 1911 IS an outdated design....and that's exactly what I love about it."
Rosco S. Benson
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tight lines and screaming reels |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by lagged :I trust my life to my 1911 every day. Nothing wrong with it at all. I like the .45 round. It's low enough velocity to be a good home-defense round. (A couple sheets of drywall will slow it down.). Good knockdown power. But, I was never very good with it unless I practiced 1-2 times a month.
I carried "Officer's Model" (compact version of the 1911) for 2-3 years in the '90s. When I actively practiced I was really good with it. But, when I lost interest, I was no good. It had too much recoil for me to just pick it up and use it. For occasional use I did better with a .38 revolver or .40 Glock.
.380's a strange round. Being smaller you'd think it would be easier to shoot. But, every .380 gun I've fired (Makarov, CZ, AMT) it stings the palm of my hand like hitting a baseball bat against a metal post. Some .380 guns are good for concealability, but not fun to shoot.
Mark |
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000
| reply to keyboard5684
"Assault rifles put the fear of God into anyone... buy an AR15 for about $1,500 and LEARN TO USE IT."
That's some of the worst advice for someone new to a gun, EVER! I own several AR-15s and that would be the every last gun I would grab if I ever needed one. The odds of hitting your intended target in a dark home are much lower and the odds of hitting an innocent party are much higher. I've shot many things with my AR-15s, including full dumpsters which do nothing to stop the rounds.
The very best thing someone new to a gun could do is buy a pump shotgun. The odds of hitting an innocent bystander are much lower, the sound of a pump shotgun is VERY intimidating. The idea of a gun for home defense or any defense situation is to remove the threat. Once the threat is removed you are no longer justified in shooting the intruder. |
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TMMerlin
The Devil made me do it
join:2003-06-19
Oxford, MI
 ·EarthLink
| reply to swhx7
If you want a handgun for "home defense" .. I would get a revolver. .38 or .357 .. a semi-auto is the wrong gun for your purpose {although they are sexy to have}.
A revolver "will always fire" where as a semi-automatic has a history of missfire.
Besides .. you only need "one shot" to get the job done.
Then again ..the best defense for home protection is a dog. I have an American Boxer. A wonderful family pet that would rip an intruder a new asshole to protect us..!
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Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy but they become legend. |
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