 DarkSithPro
join:2005-02-12 Huntington Beach, CA
| reply to amigo_boy Re: firearms
said by amigo_boy :said by DarkSithPro :If you get a Firearm then don't listen to all the peeps who say 357 magnum. That's way too much overkill for a defensive Firearm. I would suggest a 9mm, or a .40 caliber handgun, If he's considering the reliability of a revolver, then a .38 would be the equivalent to the semi-auto calibers you mentioned. The nice thing about a .357 revolver is that you can shoot .38 ammo too. Best of both worlds. Semi-autos don't have that flexibility. A .357 might be a good choice for someone with skill. It's all about tradeoffs. Revolvers are more reliable, but don't have the capacity of a semi-auto. Example: I like to carry concealed a .357. More stopping power per round which is important considering I don't have 10-12 rounds of lower-power ammo to empty into a bad guy (like you do with your Glock). For me, each shot has to count. Inside the house, where concerns about missed shots going into other rooms (or neighboring houses with a .357), a .38 might be the better tradeoff. Or, .357 using frangible ammo (Glasser or Magtech.). I don't think there are any right or wrong answers. There are a lot of factors that are different for every individual. (Even the choice to use frangible ammo is complicated by climate. I'd use it in a warm climate like Phoenix. But, not Michigan, where there's greater chance of an intruder wearing a heavy jacket, which can reduce the performance of frangible ammo.) Mark In all honestly a decent Semi-Automatic handgun which is properly maintained will fire just fine. I dislike the .38 because it has less kinetic energy than a 9mm. His best bet would be a 9mm with a +p hollow point round. A good can of BreakFree to keep his auto lubricated, and it will be great. |
|
  amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22 Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by DarkSithPro :In all honestly a decent Semi-Automatic handgun which is properly maintained ... It's the "properly maintained" part that leaves a little to be desired. For someone who won't be such an enthusiast as to clean their gun often, or go to the range to fire it, a revolver is 100% reliable.
Semi-autos suffer from picking up gunk which can impede their mechanical operation. And, magazine springs can fade over time. Rounds in the magazine can pick up gunk and not feed properly. You never know if your choice of ammo will feed without taking the time to fire a few at the range.
Semi-autos are great for enthusiasts willing to put the time into cleaning and practicing with their weapon. I used to use semi-autos exclusively.
But, for someone trying to keep their job by putting in extra hours, or working a second job to keep their house, the last thing they need is the drama that comes with semi-autos. A revolver gets the job done, even after letting it sit 10 years. No doubts about whether it will work. No pressure to clean it, or go to the range and make sure it still fires (that the mag spring hasn't faded).
Every type of firearm (and caliber) has its positives and negatives. The worst advice is to imply that one person's choice is the best one. It's only best for that person (or anyone else with exactly that person's circumstances).
Mark |
|
 Lazlow
join:2006-08-07 Saint Louis, MO
| reply to amigo_boy amigo_boy
I think you are forgetting about 10mm and short & wimpy(S&W40). 10mm's shoot .40 just fine. The same goes for a ton of the other cartridges for automatics(not just revolvers). The same goes for stopping power. Very few people who understand firearms would consider 10mm or 45 auto to be lower power ammo (both are available in low and high capacity form factors). Glock makes 10mm and 45s too. |
|
 DarkSithPro
join:2005-02-12 Huntington Beach, CA
| reply to amigo_boy said by amigo_boy :said by DarkSithPro :In all honestly a decent Semi-Automatic handgun which is properly maintained ... It's the "properly maintained" part that leaves a little to be desired. For someone who won't be such an enthusiast as to clean their gun often, or go to the range to fire it, a revolver is 100% reliable. Semi-autos suffer from picking up gunk which can impede their mechanical operation. And, magazine springs can fade over time. Rounds in the magazine can pick up gunk and not feed properly. You never know if your choice of ammo will feed without taking the time to fire a few at the range. Semi-autos are great for enthusiasts willing to put the time into cleaning and practicing with their weapon. I used to use semi-autos exclusively. But, for someone trying to keep their job by putting in extra hours, or working a second job to keep their house, the last thing they need is the drama that comes with semi-autos. A revolver gets the job done, even after letting it sit 10 years. No doubts about whether it will work. No pressure to clean it, or go to the range and make sure it still fires (that the mag spring hasn't faded). Every type of firearm (and caliber) has its positives and negatives. The worst advice is to imply that one person's choice is the best one. It's only best for that person (or anyone else with exactly that person's circumstances). Mark To opine on this, from firing .38 snub nose "which I'm sure he would get" it's a very uncomfortable gun to fire, not to mention is poor accuracy, and gunk that you can taste after you fire. Now take a Glock 17 with it's 5 inch barrel. A much more accurate weapon, with much better ergonomics. |
|
  amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22 Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
1 edit | reply to Lazlow said by Lazlow :I think you are forgetting about 10mm and short & wimpy(S&W40). 10mm's shoot .40 just fine. The same goes for a ton of the other cartridges for automatics(not just revolvers). Thanks. I wasn't aware that you could shoot .40 cal in a 10mm semi-auto. Isn't there a problem with the .40 ammo being loose (front to back) in the magazine? (Like, trying to shoot .380 in a 9mm?).
What are the ton of other semi-auto calibers you can do that with? I've never heard of this.
said by Lazlow :The same goes for stopping power. Very few people who understand firearms would consider 10mm or 45 auto to be lower power ammo (both are available in low and high capacity form factors). Glock makes 10mm and 45s too. It seems like you're mixing 3 different thoughts in that sentence. Stopping power, power, and capacity.
I agree that a .45 has great stopping power. I like the round. I'm just not good with it unless I practice regularly. But, it's not a high-powered round. It's low velocity.
I agree that you can get high-capacity .45 semi-autos. Bulkier than smaller calibers. Less capacity compared to smaller calibers. But, in some cases, for some individuals, it may be a good choice.
Mark |
|
 DarkSithPro
join:2005-02-12 Huntington Beach, CA
| reply to Lazlow said by Lazlow :amigo_boy I think you are forgetting about 10mm and short & wimpy(S&W40). 10mm's shoot .40 just fine. The same goes for a ton of the other cartridges for automatics(not just revolvers). The same goes for stopping power. Very few people who understand firearms would consider 10mm or 45 auto to be lower power ammo (both are available in low and high capacity form factors). Glock makes 10mm and 45s too. The FBI dropped that round "10mm" because it didn't meet the requirements of the FBI. The round had too much kick, and the frame was too large to be practical replacement for the 9mm. This was due to the FBI shootout where the .38 did not perform. Look at most LEO agencies in the U.S. Most of them carry .40 caliber now. The North Hollywood shootout was pretty much the start of when a lot of local agencies started switching to larger calibers. |
|
  amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22 Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
3 edits | reply to DarkSithPro said by DarkSithPro :To opine on this, from firing .38 snub nose "which I'm sure he would get" it's a very uncomfortable gun to fire, Not as uncomfortable as .380s I've shot (which is more comparable to a snub nose revolver). In both cases it's due to the mass of the gun.
And, comfort is more a consideration for someone who will regularly shoot as a hobby, not for home defense.
said by DarkSithPro :not to mention is poor accuracy, and gunk that you can taste after you fire. Now take a Glock 17 with it's 5 inch barrel. A much more accurate weapon, with much better ergonomics. If I were going to compare a revolver to a full-size Glock 17, I'd compare a 6" barrel (not a 2" snub-nose). The comfort and accuracy are roughly equivalent. And, it's more reliable for the inactive (single-purpose) shooter.
Less capacity. But, safer due to the double action (instead of Glock's unusual action with a "safety" built into the trigger). And, potentially more accurate when the shooter cocks the hammer to fire in single action mode (although, less safe at that point).
Every individual's requirements, preferences, capabilities are different. Revolvers and semis have their own positives and negatives.
Mark |
|
  lagged
join:2001-10-30 Narberth, PA
| reply to amigo_boy YOU CANNOT SHOOT .40 IN A 10 MM OR 380 IN A 9MM IN A SEMI AUTO. IF YOU DO YOU ARE IN SERIOUS DANGER!
Almost every semi auto headspaces off of the case mouth. Shoot a shorter round in these and KABOOM. Revolver's are different and most can shoot shorter rounds in the same caliber.
This is exactly why this forum is almost the worst one to come to for gun advice. -- tight lines and screaming reels |
|
  amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22 Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by lagged :YOU CANNOT SHOOT .40 IN A 10 MM OR 380 IN A 9MM IN A SEMI AUTO. IF YOU DO YOU ARE IN SERIOUS DANGER! ... This is exactly why this forum is almost the worst one to come to for gun advice. It seems like there's been a lot of good advice until "Lazlow's" comment that semi-autos will shoot multiple calibers.
Mark |
|
  ixNay Premium join:2002-04-12 USA clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to lagged said by lagged :YOU CANNOT SHOOT .40 IN A 10 MM OR 380 IN A 9MM IN A SEMI AUTO. IF YOU DO YOU ARE IN SERIOUS DANGER! Almost every semi auto headspaces off of the case mouth. Shoot a shorter round in these and KABOOM. Revolver's are different and most can shoot shorter rounds in the same caliber. This is exactly why this forum is almost the worst one to come to for gun advice. Lagged is absolutely correct! Although the 2 rounds share size in diameter the length and loads are different. If you want to shoot different calibers with the same handgun, then get a gun that allows you to swap out barrels from one caliber to another. Sig Sauer P229 for ex. (shoots a .40 and .357) while using the same magz.
*NOTE* Agreed with removed and lagged. Do not come here asking for advice on firearms. This is not the place! Find a professional who specializes in firearms and get some advice and more importantly hands on training. Good Luck! |
|
  amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22 Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by ixNay :Sig Sauer P229 for ex. (shoots a .40 and .357) while using the same magz. Just to clarify for the OP, that's a special (relatively new) .357 cartridge designed for semi-autos. Not the traditional revolver .357.
And, the warning about mixing calibers is for semi-autos. It's perfectly safe to shoot .38 in a .357 revolver (but not vice versa).
Mark |
|
  dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ
| reply to CtrlAltDel said by CtrlAltDel :Get one of these. [att=1] Or get one of these.[att=2] Either one will scare away the bad guys. the signs just tell the thief what tools he'll need to disable a particular alarm! -- When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee |
|
  Wills
join:2001-01-03 Port Charlotte, FL
| reply to amigo_boy said by amigo_boy :said by lagged :I trust my life to my 1911 every day. Nothing wrong with it at all. I like the .45 round. It's low enough velocity to be a good home-defense round. (A couple sheets of drywall will slow it down.). Good knockdown power. But, I was never very good with it unless I practiced 1-2 times a month. I carried "Officer's Model" (compact version of the 1911) for 2-3 years in the '90s. When I actively practiced I was really good with it. But, when I lost interest, I was no good. It had too much recoil for me to just pick it up and use it. For occasional use I did better with a .38 revolver or .40 Glock. .380's a strange round. Being smaller you'd think it would be easier to shoot. But, every .380 gun I've fired (Makarov, CZ, AMT) it stings the palm of my hand like hitting a baseball bat against a metal post. Some .380 guns are good for concealability, but not fun to shoot. Mark Try the Bersa .380. I bought one for the wife to shoot and I love to shoot that thing. Shoot it all day... -- Go fishing in southwest Florida. »www.viciousstrikes.com |
|
  Wills
join:2001-01-03 Port Charlotte, FL
| reply to lagged said by lagged :I trust my life to my 1911 every day. Nothing wrong with it at all. "Of course the 1911 is an outdated design. It came from an era when weapons were designed to win fights, not to avoid product liability lawsuits. It came from an era where it was the norm to learn how your weapon operated and to practice that operation until it became second nature, not to design the piece to the lowest common denominator. It came from an era in which our country tried to supply its fighting men with the best tools possible, unlike today, when our fighting men and women are issued hardware that was adopted because of international deal-making or the fact that the factory is in some well-connected congressman's district. Yes, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the 1911 IS an outdated design....and that's exactly what I love about it." Rosco S. Benson I used to hate the 1911. Outdated, quirky, problematic...you name it. Until I bought one and found out how wrong I was.
My 1911 has one glaring problem. It's appetite. -- Go fishing in southwest Florida. »www.viciousstrikes.com |
|
  IT Guy Ow, My Balls Premium join:2004-07-29 Las Cruces, NM clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to DarkSithPro said by DarkSithPro :said by Lazlow :amigo_boy I think you are forgetting about 10mm and short & wimpy(S&W40). 10mm's shoot .40 just fine. The same goes for a ton of the other cartridges for automatics(not just revolvers). The same goes for stopping power. Very few people who understand firearms would consider 10mm or 45 auto to be lower power ammo (both are available in low and high capacity form factors). Glock makes 10mm and 45s too. The FBI dropped that round "10mm" because it didn't meet the requirements of the FBI. The round had too much kick, and the frame was too large to be practical replacement for the 9mm. This was due to the FBI shootout where the .38 did not perform. Look at most LEO agencies in the U.S. Most of them carry .40 caliber now. The North Hollywood shootout was pretty much the start of when a lot of local agencies started switching to larger calibers. I love my Sig Arms P229 .40 S&W, accurate, powerful and fun to shoot although it is pretty heavy. I know it is popular with Federal law enforcement, I see a lot of Border Patrol agents carrying them.
I think this is going to be my next purchase: »demigodllc.com/articles/gsg-5-mp···-lr/?p=5
Sure it's just .22, but I love target shooting with .22 -- Don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. |
|
  amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22 Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by IT Guy :Sure it's just .22, but I love target shooting with .22 I had one of these silenced, pneumatic pre-charged air guns for awhile. It's pressurized using a scuba tank.
It was a lot of fun. I made a little trap out of 1/4" steel and could sit in the backyard target practicing. The silencer made it very quite. It was fun to fine-tune my marksmanship (self-control) without making a trip to the range, and using something more realistic than a BB gun.
Not sure what the laws are in different areas. I didn't read the actual law here, but heard that it's legal to fire an air-gun in the backyard here as long as you don't fire over the fence, and don't shoot birds.
Mark |
|
  lagged
join:2001-10-30 Narberth, PA | reply to IT Guy GSG was ordered to stop manufacturing the GSG5. If you want one, get one soon.
For the money, I'd rather have an AR in 22 -- tight lines and screaming reels |
|
 Axekick
join:2005-05-01 Saint Louis, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to swhx7 Sounds like you have made a thoughtful and wise decision that I hope works out well for you and your family.
A decent alarm would not simply emit an audible alarm but should automatically summons the police to your residence. (The proper breed of dog would notify you of an intruder prior to their attempting to enter your home.)
I always believed burglars primarily returned to a home if they were scared off and had not finished searching for valuables. In your scenario, I doubt they would return but really do not know enough of the details to give an opinion, nor am I an expert.
Guns are very dangerous and I cringe anytime someone talks about getting one for self defense unless they have had extensive experience with them already. But peace of mind and a sense of security is necessary for a happy environment so I do hope that everything works out well for you and your family.
Good luck. |
|
 nonymous
join:2003-09-08 Glendale, AZ
| said by Axekick :Sounds like you have made a thoughtful and wise decision that I hope works out well for you and your family. A decent alarm would not simply emit an audible alarm but should automatically summons the police to your residence. (The proper breed of dog would notify you of an intruder prior to their attempting to enter your home.) I always believed burglars primarily returned to a home if they were scared off and had not finished searching for valuables. In your scenario, I doubt they would return but really do not know enough of the details to give an opinion, nor am I an expert. Guns are very dangerous and I cringe anytime someone talks about getting one for self defense unless they have had extensive experience with them already. But peace of mind and a sense of security is necessary for a happy environment so I do hope that everything works out well for you and your family. Good luck. The ones that are most outspoken in their go see a professional and do not ask here seem to me to be the most dangerous. They buy the biggest or prettiest firearms. Only the best to protect themselves. They make their self defense how great firearms are be known to all. Don't listen hear soon you will be one of us and enjoy your new precious. I know personally two people sitting in jail for self defense with the same attitude. They collected and used only the best and highest most stopping power weapons. How great guns are. One macho guy feeling threatened by someone smaller felt threatened by the unarmed guy as he was backing off from the drawn weapon. He still shot him in the face. I protected myself I was self defense. Not good enough the unarmed guy was backing off. The gun had done its protecting duty. Now he had to use his pride and joy. He was king of the world. Finally a chance to shoot it for real. Another a sort of fight. Drew weapon on the other unarmed person and multiple rounds into everyone nearby. The more people post pictures of their precious toys and saying I am going hunting with this new fully auto rifle the more scared I get. The ones that actually use them for self defense you never hear them talk unless you ask. Then it is not about their precious toys. Just what works. Some seem to not be able to wait for the first time they get to really use their toy. Unlike a true hunting rifle you can use in hunting season a precious toy just sits and waits. I bet some just can not wait to use their precious toys. Normal people have one for each to carry and maybe one for the home. You never hear them talk about how great their gun is. They practice and are safe. Thing is you would never suspect they have one. |
|
  IT Guy Ow, My Balls Premium join:2004-07-29 Las Cruces, NM clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to amigo_boy That's a pretty mean looking air rifle! As a kid my brother and I would always shoot our BB guns in the back yard at a bail of hay with paper targets on them. Ah, those were the days! -- Don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. |
|