El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| Looking to adopt a new *nix
Hey everybody,
I've never started a topic on here so bear with me, as I bang this one out between calls. 
I'm looking to adopt a different *nix from Ubuntu seeing as I want to get a little more "in-depth" about linux.
I'm looking for something modern, with a frequent release schedule (rolling release distro maybe?) and hopefully good support for modern hardware.
I would consider myself somewhere between beginner and intermediate, I've compiled a few programs, and I'm not overly terrified of command lines and CLIs.
I was wondering what your preferences were?
I'll be taking your distros, reading up on them on distrowatch and probably installing a few of them on a wired machine.
Thanks again.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage. |
|
GILXA1226
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-29
London, OH
clubs:
| I'd go with Gentoo, but I'm biased, it's all I use. You get a great level of customization, but there are also tons of resources to help with just about any issue. Installs are definitely not as bad as they used to be, and the directions are spot on.
--
We don't give a d@mn for the whole state of Michigan... we're from OHIO! O!H! ... I!O! |
|
El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON | reply to El Quintron
Awsome thank you.
So far: (from tsi forum as well)
1 Slackware
1 Debian
2 Gentoo. |
|
Kakalaky
Premium
join:2003-04-04
Broken Arrow, OK | reply to El Quintron
Arch |
|
shdesigns
Powered By Infinite Improbabilty Drive
Premium
join:2000-12-01
Stone Mountain, GA
·Atlantic Nexus
| reply to El Quintron
My vote is for Gentoo also. All I use on my servers and router. Easy to keep it up to date and when emerge needs help when the equivalent of "RPM hell" occurs, it usually points you to a web page with the steps needed.
Slackware is too "old" for my taste. I started on it and did not like the BSD-style init and config.
Fedora would be another choice. I ran it for a year but was dissapointed by the poor package management at the repositories.
Debian would be on my list to try. Centos also as I ran RH for years until it went to fedora.
--
Scott Henion
Embedded Systems Consultant,
SHDesigns home - DIY Welder |
|
No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC
Host:
Wireless Networking
All Things Unix
Cox HSI
Qwest
Efficient
| reply to El Quintron
Slackware is an excellent choice for a couple of reasons. It does none of the hand-holding many "just works" distributions offer. It forces you to do some things on your own which results in a more savvy user.
It has excellent hardware support and a robust community of users happy to help. If you like having a GUI for everything or are easily put off by a challenge, it's not the best choice. |
|
nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| said by No_Strings  :Slackware is an excellent choice for a couple of reasons. It does none of the hand-holding many "just works" distributions offer. It forces you to do some things on your own which results in a more savvy user. That's the one I used to use in the early 90s. Downloaded the various versions from Walnut Creek's mirrors. =)
Fighting with Slackware is probably what most enabled me to have a career in UNIX.
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
|
No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC
Host:
Wireless Networking
All Things Unix
Cox HSI
Qwest
Efficient
| It's far less of a fight these days, in part due to kernel enhancements. Even so, some of the design principles remain:
It still boots to a command prompt by default
The installer is an ncurses UI, not a point & click wizard.
Upgrading a package that requires configuration file changes drops a new config file next to the original. As a user, you decide whether to replace old with new, edit old to incorporate new or do nothing at all. Slackware's designers would never presume to make those decisions for you.
Configuration files are well documented.
Stability and security are more important than release schedules. A current tree is available for those wanting bleeding edge or to test. I usually compile from source if I need something newer than what's released - Pidgin and the GIMP, usually.
Updates are maintained for ancient releases, so you can be secure even if you're rev-locked on something as old as shdesigns .
There is no automated update manager. Again, the Slackware maintainers do not presume to tell you how to manage your system. Updates are made available. It's up to you to decide what to install and when. Third party tools are available, though, for those who want extra guidance or help with dependencies.
It's fast. Because there aren't 50 GUI tools for every function, I found it to be faster than the kitchen sink distros. That and sticking with XCFE4 as my DE keeps me from having to run on the h/w upgrade treadmill.
I'd be the first to admit it's not everyone's cup of tea. I found the BSD-style init more intuitive than the SysV init I'd used with Mandrake, Red Hat and SuSE. It's not easy to start with Slack if you have never seen a *nix system. Given the OP's comfort level, I think it would be worth considering. |
|
El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| reply to El Quintron
Thank you everyone for the imput,
So far it seems my "complex" distro is going to be a toss up between Slackware and Gentoo. I'm not going to go with Debian, due to its similarities to Ubuntu (being the parent disto n'all)
I'm itching to try Gentoo, and Slackware 13, but I have a question for Gentoo users here; and againg this may be ignorant on my part but I've heard that Gentoo is a little too customizable.
So how long from start to finish with Gentoo? I'm used to going from zero to complete with Ubuntu in under 45 mins, I'm aware this isn't possible with Gentoo but how long does it take?
I also know that Gentoo users are some of the biggest contributors on the ubuntu forums, which tells me they know how to work it.
@Kakalaky:
I have read some documention about Arch, and I haven't tried it. Why do you like it?
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage. |
|
pablo2525
join:2003-06-23
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to El Quintron
Howdy,
I find openSUSE to be a great distribution which has many similarities to proprietary Unices.
Given I'm a scum-sucking consultant, I need to be ready to be (somewhat) versed in proprietary Unices: HP-UX, Solaris, etc.
Some folks dislike openSUSE because there's a Microsoft integral. In the end, I don't care because some of the products I use are Microsoft-based. It'd be silly to deny that Microsoft doesn't produce some very good products.
Also, some of the tools I use only run in Windows.
Cheers,
-pablo
--
openSUSE 11.1;KDE
ISP: TekSavvy DSL; backhauled via a 6KM wireless link |
|
Kakalaky
Premium
join:2003-04-04
Broken Arrow, OK | reply to El Quintron
I like Arch because it is a simple rolling release distro with up to date packages. I would describe it as what would happen if Slackware and Gentoo merged. |
|
El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON | Hmm seeing as I'm torn between Slackware and Gentoo, that may be my Distro of choice! |
|
disturbed1
Premium
join:2003-09-06
Columbus, OH
clubs: | reply to El Quintron
There's an old saying -
If you learn Red Hat, you learn Red Hat. If you learn SuSE, you learn SuSE. But if you learn Slackware, you learn Linux
Gentoo would be my number 3 choice behind LFS. |
|
El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| I've read about linux from scratch and it would be a project and a half.
Basically I'd go from being an Ubuntu user to a linux expert. I don't know if I could pull that learning curve without have familiarized myself with a "true" linux though...
It's tempting...
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage. |
|
nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| said by El Quintron :I've read about linux from scratch and it would be a project and a half. Basically I'd go from being an Ubuntu user to a linux expert. I don't know if I could pull that learning curve without have familiarized myself with a "true" linux though... It's tempting... If you ever want to achieve anything, it's better to reach beyond your grasp. Even if you fail to achieve expert, you'll most likely be far closer than someone who sets lower goals.
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
|
disturbed1
Premium
join:2003-09-06
Columbus, OH
clubs:
| reply to El Quintron
LFS is not that difficult. Time consuming yes. It reminds me of how Gentoo used to be with the stage1 builds. It comes with a book that has step by step instructions. If you can read, you can do LFS. The question is if you want to do an LFS install.
The next best thing to LFS is Slackware, and reading the source directory on the Slackware DVD. This is what re-sold me on Slackware. It's just amazing, and something that is too often taken for granted. The simple human understanding nature in which you can build, rebuild, and customize Slackware. It is simple shell scripts, no bashisms, this that flags, just easy to understand plain English complete shell scripts. |
|
firephoto
KDE
Premium
join:2003-03-18
·Verizon west (ex G..
| reply to El Quintron
Gentoo is good but the actuall system upkeep is going to involve some gentoo only tools so the value of learning "linux" isn't going to be much more than other distros except in the sense that things might break more often with your own special touch being the source of trouble perhaps. 
My frustration started with Mandrake, progressed to suse and near anger at the stupidity and ended up with Gentoo as far as learning goes but progressed to Kubuntu as the needs of use outweighed the need to tinker. I recently dived back into Gentoo and the previous knowledge did help but what I needed to know to setup and run Gentoo again was really all Gentoo specific. I ended up not staying with Gentoo but might go back with a different approach again in the future. The project does have some stability again too which is good but it seems to be lacking the finish needed for things to work like they should which leave you having to tinker to make things work in a normal way. I think the 'slim and trim' goes to an extreme here when we're talking about changes that affect nobody but those who need the changes...
Linux is Linux and what people like get promoted as 'better to learn with' a lot of the time. I promise you that you can learn everything and anything you want with any distro plus you'll learn how that distro works too which won't help you with another distro. Yum? RPM? any of those flavors? I know nothing but I promise you I can compile or change any config file which might even break something. Again they are all different and it will trace back to someones personal preferences most likely and not anything based on what's best.
Pardus is very popular and somewhat unique. It started as a Gentoo offshoot but became it's own system as the developers changed things. I haven't ran it myself but it's one of those strange ones that I've never heard anyone trying it and not liking it. I'm pretty confident all the bits are there to 'learn linux' too. I see the PiSi packages a lot too with individual software releases from various projects so it must have a little momentum behind it and some form of simplicity since I don't see 4 different sets of PiSi files for 2 years worth of distro releases. (i also think i talked myself into trying it)
--
Say no to JAMS! |
|
Silentwolf
Vaprotan
Premium
join:2002-07-03
Kingsport, TN
clubs: | reply to El Quintron
I'd suggest Gentoo as well, used it on my server and workstation for a number of years and have been happy with it.
--
Brad ~ Blog | Vanadiel Ranch (FFXI) |
|
El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON | reply to El Quintron
Ok so far from what I've read its pretty much between Slackware and Arch. Speaking of Slackware has anyone tried Zenwalk? I hear it's Slackware based. |
|
mike_f
join:2007-01-10
Hawthorne, CA
·Time Warner Cable
·Comcast
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to El Quintron
Why limit yourself to One *nix?
If you want to learn AND have a usable, reliable and maintainable system at all times, use Debian/XFCE4 as a host and try out all of these other *nixes under Virtualbox.
Alternatively, run a multiboot system. No big deal if you can deal with gparted and grub.
If you want to test your BSD related sanity, dig into OpenSolaris  . |
|
