 
woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA | Hmmmmmmmmmmm can we say busted
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BlooMe | |
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zoom314
Superman
Premium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA | Re: Hmmmmmmmmmmm I think You can and Did! LOL  | |
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justncredible
@rr.com
| Preditory priceing?? Some made up name for price matching. If I go to best buy and they have a 42inch plasma for $100.00 and then go across the street to circuit city and they have the same TV for $150.00 is that preditory priceing done by best buy?? Now what do you call it if circuit city matches best buys price????
See just how stupid this article is? Every week sales happen in every store in America, price matching for the same services and goods is common place everywhere you go. It is not preditory priceing.
Also this shows I am right about the muni's, they can not compete with real players, they are forceing the competeion to have higher prices, is this fair? | |
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justncredible
@rr.com
| Re: Hmmmmmmmmmmm gee the prices for basic internet are very high. munis are stealing tax payers money.
»portal.ashlandhome.net/jahia/Jahia/pid/238
Why are the munis pushing that the only reason people don't like them is competing with private business. The real truth is we the people that have some common sense do not want our tax dollars wasted. It would be nice to see the real numbers shown, how much did this muni spend on the network, how many customers, how many and how much are the lazy city workers making an hour, where is the real cost of the AFN network, we already see the prices for net are way higher than average.
Munis are a outrage, higher taxes to get them and then higher prices to use the service you already paid for. | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
 ·Embarq Now Century..
| Re: Hmmmmmmmmmmm I went to the link you provided for AFN Inet access, and it's cheaper than what I pay Adelphia: Basic+ is 3 to 5 Mb's down, 256 up, and with the same bells and whistles.
My rates are $43/with TV ($94 total), and $55 without. Their service is $36.95 -- nothing but net.
Quit 'hmmmmmmm' ing and find that cluecloud! 
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| | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by justncredible:
The real truth is we the people that have some common sense do not want our tax dollars wasted. Riiiight... Only people who oppose all muni operations have common sense. 
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64 bit CPUs and OSes? That's so 1996.
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EVILceo
@68.166.x.x | "Also this shows I am right about the muni's, they can not compete with real players"
ummm.... IT ONLY SHOWS THAT YOU ARE INCREDIBLY STUPID TROLL ))) | |
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| | | jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | May I suggest a name change to justanothertroll.
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BTK is Caught!!!! | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26 | A) Spell check button is at the bottom next to 'preview'.
B) Demand redress for the cost of your education.
C) Find a Clue Cloud and stand under it while praying for rain. | |
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| | claudeo
join:2000-02-23
Redmond, WA
| said by justncredible:
Preditory priceing?? Some made up name for price matching. If I go to best buy and they have a 42inch plasma for $100.00 and then go across the street to circuit city and they have the same TV for $150.00 is that preditory priceing done by best buy?? Now what do you call it if circuit city matches best buys price???? You are confused. Predatory pricing would be if store chain A were to price a product $150 in all its stores, except in one store where it is priced $99only because store B is next door and sells the same product for $100, as a way to undercut store B. As soon as store B is out of business, the price goes back up to $150. That is not price matching. Price matching would be if chain A were to sell the same product for $100 in *every* store. With cable, since you can't go to another store, this is a particularly unethical way to do business by stealing customers from a competitor to gouge them later. Thou shalt not steal. | |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| Re: Hmmmmmmmmmmm said by claudeo  :Predatory pricing would be if store chain A were to price a product $150 in all its stores, except in one store where it is priced $99only because store B is next door and sells the same product for $100, as a way to undercut store B. As soon as store B is out of business, the price goes back up to $150. That is not price matching. Price matching would be if chain A were to sell the same product for $100 in *every* store. Isn't that just responding to the market? If I owned store A, I'd be a fool to keep selling that product at $150 and let the guy next door take all of my business.
If I sell beer for $1.50 a bottle and a bar opens up two blocks away that sells it for $1.00 a bottle, I'd better drop my price. Either that or hire much better looking bartenders than him. | |
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Dezbend
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-20
| said by justncredible:
Preditory priceing?? Some made up name for price matching. If I go to best buy and they have a 42inch plasma for $100.00 and then go across the street to circuit city and they have the same TV for $150.00 is that preditory priceing done by best buy?? Now what do you call it if circuit city matches best buys price????
See just how stupid this article is? Every week sales happen in every store in America, price matching for the same services and goods is common place everywhere you go. It is not preditory priceing.
Also this shows I am right about the muni's, they can not compete with real players, they are forceing the competeion to have higher prices, is this fair?
There certainly needs to be a clear definition of competitive pricing versus predatory pricing/price gouging.
In your example we would need to know the cost of the tv to determine if Best Buy is competing with or trying to undercut Circuit City.
Taking a short term loss in order to drive competition out of business is predatory pricing and certainly differs from a true competitive offer.
I believe that charter was either following a predatory strategies, or are gouging surrounding areas.
IMHO the offer made in Ashland probably is a winback offer, but has become the primary offer (from the sales rep point of view) because "everyone" in Ashland has AFN.
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| | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| said by justncredible:
Preditory priceing?? Some made up name for price matching. If I go to best buy and they have a 42inch plasma for $100.00 and then go across the street to circuit city and they have the same TV for $150.00 is that preditory priceing done by best buy?? Now what do you call it if circuit city matches best buys price????
See just how stupid this article is? Every week sales happen in every store in America, price matching for the same services and goods is common place everywhere you go. It is not preditory priceing.
Also this shows I am right about the muni's, they can not compete with real players, they are forceing the competeion to have higher prices, is this fair?
Hey if they let those prices float nation wide then I wouldn't complain but not in just one area. If it is price matching then it is good nation wide not just in one selected area.
If a sale for a given store is to that region only that is different and usually stores accept others ads as a means to match. None of that here.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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ColdFiltered
join:2005-01-25
Atlanta, GA
| The difference of $50 when the two compared prices is $100 and $150 is a lot more dramatic and speak od predatory pricing than a 'real' 42" plasma having a $50 price difference. Now, if the identical 42" plasma costs $2400 at one store and the other $1600 I would say its predatory. | |
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| | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
| The "sales" analogy just doesn't work for one simple reason. Most of us don't have luxury of taking our homes to a competitor.
If anything it shows that working muni models do force Cable Company's and ILEC's into legitimate competition.
Before I hear about "not with my tax dollars" I would like to know how many actual tax dollars went into this one. Then again, without tax dollars backing the electrification of America most of rural America wouldn't have electricity. With regards to tax dollars, so what! | |
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| lawrence171
Evilly Yours - Evilness
join:2001-12-24
Canada | I think its more like "Ooops! I did it again!" | |
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91439306
15,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16
New Milford, CT | I'll say. I'd like to see that happen here where we pay $49.99/mo for Charter. | |
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novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
| Is there any thing that can be done though?
Time warner cable does the same here and worse. For about 1/3 what i pay in norton for road runner dit phone and dit cable you can get more chanels in the line up includeing hbo show time cinimax and movie chanel for about 1/3 to 1/2 what i pay. Its sucks but i dont know what i could legally do if any thing at all. If you got soem urls of intrest could you please also private message them to me as well as post them here.
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DSLR security chat at us.ausirc.net chanel #dslr_sec lets pack this channelopen source dns server for *nix and windows »powerdns.com | |
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Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA | Wow They were not aware?
Who would believe that? | |
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Dezbend
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-20
| I am a charter customer in the Rogue Valley (10 minutes out of Ashland) and I almost believe it.
I had a charter representative show up at my door with a winback offer (I had disconnected television in favor of Dish Network). The offer was "to good to refuse" so I took it...
Needless to say my first bill did not represent the offer I was given, and when I called in about it they were not aware of the promo.
Further, charter recently started billing me for a loaner modem (the same modem I have had for 4+ years that I got "free" when I signed up for service). When I called asking why I was now being charged this fee, they said they only have a loaner modem program. I told them mine was free when I signed up. They said they don't do that. I said I know, but I got mine from @home 4 years ago. Their answer "and who is this @home you are talking about?"
It is hard for a national customer service rep to know local promotions, but I personally expect it.
If you want an opinion of a Rogue Valley resident it is this:
Charter does indeed have no clue as to what they are doing.
The city of Ashland however understands what they are doing, but takes a socialistic approach to AFN, their electrical grid, their water system, and any other city project/agenda.
I support the idea of municipality owned/operated high speed internet, but not at the cost of losing a free market economy (I do believe munis have a place in the market, but Ashland's approach tends to question the validity).
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justncredible
@rr.com
| Re: Wow This is just another example of the munis twisting the arms of not only the tax payers but the free market players.
I have roadrunner, $29.99 a month at 6/384, and that is unbundled. AFN charges more, AFN is fiber and the speeds they sell are very slow, tells us all one thing, the nodes are packed out and they can not support higher speeds. So if they can not offer competitive speeds, what can they do? Charge more money for upgrades, kneecap the competition, what a surprise. I would like to see the fiscal reports for AFN, I would like to know the salary rates paid and who the employees are kin to. I would like to know why tax dollars are spent and the service cost more than the competitors.
Yeah a "clue cloud" is needed, but not for me.
Dex, you live close to this network, do you use it? What can you relate about the local feeling for this tax spending frenzy? Is everyone on AFN in internet bliss, are they happy with the higher property taxes? | |
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Dezbend
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-20
| Re: Wow said by justncredible:
Dex, you live close to this network, do you use it? What can you relate about the local feeling for this tax spending frenzy? Is everyone on AFN in internet bliss, are they happy with the higher property taxes?
No, I live outside of the AFN area. People I know that live there are happy with the service and price. Taxes in Ashland are higher than the surrounding areas, but politically Ashland is much more socialistic (and separatist) in all policies than the surrounding areas. Many residences of Ashland moved from California and taxes (although higher than the local average) are lower than what those people are used to.
People who choose to live in Ashland are happy with AFN (as far as I can tell), but people who choose to live in Ashland do not believe in a free market economy (as far as I can tell). Which in turn makes this article so funny neither AFN nor Charter want the other to exist. One wants true monopoly while the other wants socialism - choose your poison.
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justncredible
@rr.com
| Re: Wow It is beyound my comprehension anyone of sane mind would want socialism. There is no logic or precident of socialism beneifiting the people. I tend to belive it is the curoupt crooked politicians that are forceing the no choice but the government choice upon the unsuspecting people. Our forefathers in this country warned this would happen. It is rampant, the apparent lack of intrest in freedom vexes me. The days of clintons dream of the people of this country giving up choices for government programs is upon us. | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq Now Century..
| Re: Wow said by justncredible:
It is beyound my comprehension anyone of sane mind would want socialism. There is no logic or precident of socialism beneifiting the people. I tend to belive it is the curoupt crooked politicians that are forceing the no choice but the government choice upon the unsuspecting people. Our forefathers in this country warned this would happen. It is rampant, the apparent lack of intrest in freedom vexes me. The days of clintons dream of the people of this country giving up choices for government programs is upon us.
What a complete and utter load of nonsense; people don't prefer socialism, they just don't want fascism.
Tell me which sounds closer to what we have now:
Fascism Fas·cism [fá shìzzəm]
noun
dictatorial government of Mussolini: a system of government practiced by Benito Mussolini in Italy between 1922 and 1943 that was characterized by dictatorship, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of opposition, and extreme nationalism
Socialism so·cial·ism [sṓshə lìzəm]
noun
political system of communal ownership: a political theory or system in which the means of production and distribution are controlled by the people and operated according to equity and fairness rather than market principles
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005. © 1993-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
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"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass | |
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justncredible
@rr.com
| Re: Wow Tacspeed I have roadrunner and AFN is slower and cost more. Your from tacoma, click network, ha what a joke that one is as well, higher electric bills to subsidize the famous click network that is spoken of so highly here on the BBR forums.
As for wmark, we must not live in the same country. I see no fascism here, none, most of our leaders do what we the people want. 85% wanted a war with Iraq, our leader did what we wanted. We the people want the government we have, on a federal level. Something is very wrong with state and local goverenment right now, I am seeing cities banning smoking, cities running roadblocks, city and state projects that fall only under the definnition of pure socialism. Welfare, and free housing, free healthcare. Right now we are so far from what the founding fathers ment by free. The muni ran networks are the worst of this socialist ideal, nepitissim is unchecked, backroom deals are getting exposed all the time. It is a horror story. We watched as democraps ripped signs from 4 year old kids, we watched as the tanks rolled in waco and burned 27 children to death, we know what socialism brings, history shows 100 million deaths in the last 100 years in the name of socialism. With that think of the true smiles and joy on the Iraqi peoples faces as they lined up to vote. 3 men tackled and stopped suicide bombers that day, if socialism is so good why so many risk life and limb to vote? If people do not want socialism why are some here supporting a muni ran network.
I would gladly vote for Bush again, he has been nothing but honest and a true servant of the peoples will in this country. He even embraced his foes, the dixie chicks spoke out aganst him and within a week he came out and said he supported them in that.
"centralized control of private enterprise"
what would you call a muni that complains about another company undercutting the already high price they set? The people of ashland have made a huge mistake. The high prices they now pay shows that mistake. | |
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Dezbend
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-20
| Re: Wow AFNs prices compared against a national average may or may not be high - I have not looked into that, but locally they are cheaper than Charter Cable internet or Qwest DSL.
I do support the muni's right to offer TV/phone/high speed internet. I have personal issues with the city of Ashland. Frankly, most people would see the AFN as a well-run city operation (the city put in the infostructure, but allows individual companies to use the network as resellers - the largest high speed internet provider in Ashland is an independant company, Infostructure, who resells AFN cable internet), but I see it as just one part of their socialistic agenda. This does not lead me to believe this is the case in all muni high speed internet endevours.
Again, in my mind neither party in this story are without fault. I would have liked to see those prices Charter were offering spread throughout the valley. That is about the cost I signed up for 4-5 years ago with @home, but @home went bankrupt, so obviously they can not be profitable with that rate structure.
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| said by justncredible:
I would gladly vote for Bush again, he has been nothing but honest and a true servant of the peoples will in this country. He even embraced his foes, the dixie chicks spoke out aganst him and within a week he came out and said he supported them in that. Oh God. You have completely thrown whatever thread of credibility you had out the window with your last post. How you took a thread on municipal broadband and turned it into political grandstanding is beyond me. The things you say are so slanted and biased there is no way to take you seriously now.
Instead of sounding like an anti-muni person you now sound like a conservative mouthpiece. Nice try with that drawn out response to someone's definition of fascism, but you totally missed the point. | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26 | said by justncredible:
As for wmark, we must not live in the same country.
Regretfully, that appears not to be the case. | |
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| | | | TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
·Advanced Stream
| quote:
but politically Ashland is much more socialistic
That doesn't surprise me since a good chunk of their lively-hood comes from the arts and the educational community.
Heck people choose to live there, they must like it. As a plus, they get lower cable rates and I suspect lower electrical and water rates. Socialism can have advantages.
As a tourist, I thought is was a nice little town.
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Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum. | |
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| | | TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
·Advanced Stream
| AFN is a HFC system and not pure fiber. The speeds they offer are in line with other cable companies.
The speeds look competitive to me and the price for the service is cheaper then other cable systems. Certainly cheaper then what Comcast charges up here.
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Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum. | |
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JarekB84
join:2003-09-01
Chicago, IL | New Policy In response to the "We don't know our pricing policy", consumers started the "We didn't know we had to pay policy" | |
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ltt75
join:2001-01-22
Hollis, NH | Nice BUSTED! | |
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Hellrazor
join:2002-02-02
Abyss | bah humbug Our local cable company does the same thing. The people in a town near here have fiber and they get the same cable service we do for $10 less. Why? Because there is competition from another service on the fiber. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Time for prosecutions... AND the FCC to set in and force nationwide pricing policies...the same ones Dish Network and DirecTV would have had to agree to if they had merged.
In this case Charter corporate turned tail as soon as people questioned it but this behavior will continue from the likes of Charter and Comcrap »'Discounted' Competition until they are taken to task for it.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Should have lowered the price even more... This would allow the municipal operators to know how good competition is for their communities.
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Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
3 edits | Sorry
Charter exective caught with his pants down |
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Varlik
Without Honor You Will Never Be Free
Premium
join:2002-01-06
Anderson, SC
1 edit | Maybe they didn't know! Do you have any idea how many times charter has ran adds or launched something new without their employees having a clue that that particular campaign was occurring.
But then again this is why this current gotcha looks so bad. Because unlike other instances their local employees knew about the packages being offered.
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"Sir SIR! We don't use DHCP servers. We only use IBM & Microsoft servers." From there my call to tech support went steadily downhill. | |
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winky
Turn Left At The Moon
join:2001-02-11
Saint Louis, MO
| Well...Maybe Obviously, depending on how you define market area it could go either way. In any case however, Munis were started in order to undercut franchised providers that for whatever reason they couldn't get to go away and get someone else in or, to lower their prices to what they considered an acceptable level. Well then, the Munis have gotten their wish (Charter actively competing with them by lowering their prices) and they complain. Obviously they didn't see that coming, silly Munis. On the down side, Charter is financing their Muni price war with regular, or higher, prices for the rest of their customers. In essence they (Charter) are using the financial resources of their national presence to offset what they may be losing (possibly) in a Muni area. Since Charter stopped the offer, you can bet there was some legal reason to do so. If there wasn't it would still be available ethics be damned, you can just imagine how pissed off cable providers are at Munis.
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If you can break it,I can fix it.Of course, It'll cost ya' | |
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Ashland
@66.241.x.x
| What goes around. One part of the predatory pricing issue in Ashland, is that AFN can be accused of exactly the same behavior. When they started they declared they would be priced 20% below the competition. Even now, the rates are far lower than industry averages. No problem there, except they contune to lose money at it, and the financial data clearly show the TV side as the culprit. Now, they are going to subsidze the low prices with tax money. | |
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