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story category Kicking People Off The Internet Is Not A Business Model
Nicolas Sarkozy: We're just 'protecting creative diversity'
(old news - 06:16PM Monday Apr 20 2009)
tags: legal · Fileswapping · business · Op/Ed · legislation · world
Last week, an attempt to pass a law forcing ISPs to boot repeat copyright infringers was voted down by French politicians. As you'd expect, the folks behind the proposal are now pushing for another vote to be held on April 29, with French President Nicolas Sarkozy proclaiming the law is necessary to "protect creative diversity." As Techdirt notes, kicking people off the Internet doesn't seem to be a way to promote "musical diversity," nor is a particularly good music business model. What it will probably do is alienate potential customers, while creating an added expense for ISPs (including a master list of repeat offenders which may not even work), with those costs passed directly on to consumers.

Related:
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  2. Germany Refuses To Implement 'Three Strikes' Law
  3. British Fiber To The Press Release
  4. France Votes Down Three Strikes Law
  5. 113,000 Have Signed Up For Pirate Bay VPN
  6. Sweden's New Piracy Law Foiled By ISPs
  7. Music Industry Wants ISPs To Adhere To Nonexistent Laws
  8. Barry Manilow Highlights 'Three Strikes' Law Stupidity
Forums » Kicking People Off The Internet Is Not A Business Model
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jadebangle
Premium
join:2007-05-22
Olathe, KS
·SureWest Internet
·AT&T Yahoo
·Comcast

Its bad for business... they dug their own grave...


It will never fly in the face of consumer
it won't encourage us to buy anything in the near future

we will never buy any product that uses hostile tactics to force every consumer to purchase what they can't afford.

the way they are going is bullying and it will get them no where... RIP riaa, mpaa...
voiptop

join:2009-02-06

Re: Its bad for business... they dug their own grave...

It's possible to approve bills like this, but really tricky to comply. Just don't pay attention...
--
My site »voip-top.com

jsz0

join:2008-01-23
Jewett City, CT
·Comcast

Don't forget about the DMCA

In the US at least an ISP who puts their safe harbor status in jeopardy has much to lose from the actions of even a single customer. So far we haven't seen this provision of the DMCA utilized. I believe in the near future we will. At that point the ISP will at minimum need to prove their cooperation on copyright enforcement. A single lawsuit would likely cost the ISP more than the potential profits of many customers combined. Hard to say exactly how many but that's assuming it's only one lawsuit. If it's multiple lawsuits the ISP could be flat out unprofitable. This is why I believe the copyright enforcement cartels will start utilizing the safe harbor provision soon. Out of all the different methods to stop piracy this is the only one that has actual teeth because both the ISP and customer are facing serious ramifications. Unlike the random hunt & peck lawsuits of the last few years there would be serious risk to everyone downloading copyrighted material.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

I dislike when people steal songs, but

What if your neighbor is stealing your internet via wifi, And maybe if the music makers made good songs like in the 50s/60s and not the (mostly IMHO)carp they do today more people would actually buy their stuff.

swhitney2003
I can't drive 55.
Premium
join:2003-06-13
NH
clubs:
·Skype
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Comcast

Re: I dislike when people steal songs, but

said by me1212 See Profile :

What if your neighbor is stealing your internet via wifi
Easy, password protect your wifi.
robl27
Premium
join:2008-07-16
Mary Esther, FL
·Cox HSI
·Vonage

Re: I dislike when people steal songs, but

wrong.. how about when the RIAA steals from the artist? this is about CONTROL. wake up people! if they don't want to be ISP's and offer bandwidth for a reasonable charge then offer ti to someone who will handle it.

you are all brainwashed by the media, stop buying cd's and start supporting artists in other ways. each artist gets 25 cents per disc bought.

-Rob
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jsz0

join:2008-01-23
Jewett City, CT

Re: I dislike when people steal songs, but

The artists agree to terms with the record labels. They have no one to blame but themselves.
kaila

join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
clubs:

Re: I dislike when people steal songs, but

Unless the artists have the brains to come up with a business plan and cash or investors to finance studio time and marketing, they really don't have much of a choice, let alone bargaining power to negotiate terms.
--
Jeff Howe
Jeff's Blog - »www.jeffhowe.net/Jeffhowe.net/Blog/Blog.html

jsz0

join:2008-01-23
Jewett City, CT
·Comcast

Re: I dislike when people steal songs, but

said by kaila See Profile :

Unless the artists have the brains to come up with a business plan and cash or investors to finance studio time and marketing, they really don't have much of a choice, let alone bargaining power to negotiate terms.
Yep. Clearly they need the labels to make the investment to produce the product and do the marketing. As a result the labels reap most of the profits since they are taking all the risk. If they want to monetize their art and cannot do it themselves they will have to pay a hefty fee.

james

join:2001-02-26
antarctica

said by jsz0 See Profile :

The artists agree to terms with the record labels. They have no one to blame but themselves.
There is a huge monopoly when it comes to publishing music, or there has been until now. The internet does the job that publishers used to do: expose the music to the world so people will buy merchandise and fill up stadiums to see the band. That is exactly why the recording industry is trying so hard to shut down music trading, it's doing their job for them FOR FREE.

swhitney2003
I can't drive 55.
Premium
join:2003-06-13
NH
clubs:
·Skype
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Comcast

said by robl27 See Profile :

wrong.. how about when the RIAA steals from the artist? this is about CONTROL. wake up people! if they don't want to be ISP's and offer bandwidth for a reasonable charge then offer ti to someone who will handle it.

you are all brainwashed by the media, stop buying cd's and start supporting artists in other ways. each artist gets 25 cents per disc bought.

-Rob
I don't see what you were saying is wrong about what I said. I simply gave a simple solution to a simple problem. Your pay for your internet connection. If you cannot protect it then you have the right to lose it. Ignorance is not a reason to redeem yourself.

Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31
·Verizon Online DSL

quote:
wrong.. how about when the RIAA steals from the artist? this is about CONTROL. wake up people!
Would that not be between the Artists and the RIAA?
--
"One good conspiracy theory deserves another."
PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD


1 edit
said by swhitney2003 See Profile :

said by me1212 See Profile :

What if your neighbor is stealing your internet via wifi
Easy, password protect your wifi.
Please allow me to point out what I believe to be a few flaws with your statement.

First, most people who buy wireless routers don't even know how to set them up. It's a given that just driving down the street will turn up SSIDs of linksys, dlink, belkin, netgear, eHome, and others all broadcasting unsecured. In most cases, the default password is still intact as well.

Actually, to say that they are "secured" is an oxymoron. Most people who did by some chance "secure" their access points have older hardware, and by limitation, can only secure with as high as WEP, which as anyone who follows the 802.11 spec, should know, is about as secure and putting a glass window between a Ferrari and the Keys in the ignition, and the outside world. (»www.techworld.com/security/news/···sid=8456)

So of course, one might say "use WPA". Of course the hardware limitation re-presents itself once more. Then again, a proof-of-concept of cracking WPA was presented in 2004. By the end of last year, WPA was being cracked in 12 minutes. (»www.pcworld.com/article/153396/.html)

Now the obvious conclusion here would be to suggest the usage of WPA2. Once again, the factor of hardware limitations rears its head; and this time, it does so with a vengeance.

Blocking by MAC address? How secure! (»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_spoofing)

Not broadcasting your SSID? I think I just chuckled.

Now this is not a personal attack. The point is that there truthfully is no way to secure a wireless link. If someone wants in bad enough, they will get in.
Jaghar

join:2001-01-30
Painesville, OH


1 edit

Re: I dislike when people steal songs, but

I really hate that argument.

Let me put it this way.

Do you look the doors and windows in your house?

If not, is it because you are in an secure area where the threat of crime is low?

If so....why? Anybody can bust a window or door and get in.

Just as you say, most people don't know how to set up a wireless router, and even LESS know how to hack through the security.

Lock your router just like you do your other things (cars, homes, etc.).
--
We will always be much more human than we wish to be.
wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..

join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH

Re: I dislike when people steal songs, but

The lock is there to show the owners intention. Not to actually keep anyone out. Same with Wifi. If I put on WEP, I cannot be held liable because someone else thwarted my basic security. The attempt had been made to keep them out...

cw

TheFlewKey

@cuma.fr

WRONG!!!!!
It takes only a sec to crack ANY WiFi Password! You can hide the name, you can try what you want! As well, you think it is difficult to link to your modem? WiFi or no WiFi!!!
But that is all not so importent! Here, they try to play big brother!
Create your own VNP-connections and Network with people that you know, or what ever! Create your own Internet! We all have now-a-days computers and we all can share some space on our harddrive

Killa200
Premium
join:2005-12-02
Spring City, TN
·AT&T Southeast

said by me1212 See Profile :

What if your neighbor is stealing your internet via wifi
Then you should still be held accountable for your lack of diligence to secure your line.

The "my neighbor was using my unsecured wireless" excuse compares to hanging a sign in your brand new dodge viper that says "take if you would like", while simultaneously leaving the keys in the car, with it opened and running. Then trying to prosecute after it is stolen.

major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:

Re: I dislike when people steal songs, but

said by Killa200 See Profile :

The "my neighbor was using my unsecured wireless" excuse compares to hanging a sign in your brand new dodge viper that says "take if you would like", while simultaneously leaving the keys in the car, with it opened and running. Then trying to prosecute after it is stolen.
LMAO. That's still considered theft, Johnny Cochran. The definition is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent. A sign in the window with the keys in the ignition, the door open and the motor running does not equal freely given consent.
--
The Toll

Tracking Lord Stanley

Killa200
Premium
join:2005-12-02
Spring City, TN

Re: I dislike when people steal songs, but

Fine, i'll get a signature on the sign first,

But you know what i am saying.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
Security codes can be cracked.
cornelius785

join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

Re: I dislike when people steal songs, but

uh, a sufficiently (as in it doesn't show up in rainbow tables) unique AP name with WPA-PSK strong WPA-PSK is uncrackable to most average users. WEP obviously can be cracked. the only way that i know to 'crack' wpa-enterprise is to some how get a hold of the security certificates.

james

join:2001-02-26
antarctica

Re: I dislike when people steal songs, but

said by cornelius785 See Profile :

uncrackable to most average users.
So you admit my client is not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, thank you. Your honor, I rest my case.
PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD


1 edit

Re: I dislike when people steal songs, but

said by james See Profile :

said by cornelius785 See Profile :

uncrackable to most average users.
So you admit my client is not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, thank you. Your honor, I rest my case.
And right there, is enough to win a trial by jury.
Mark F

join:2007-08-01
Fort Wayne, IN
I sometimes can't believe the stuff that seems to pass as rock and roll these days. I agree that if the music was better, like it once was, people would respond positively.
Mark F.

AbBaZaBbA
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Wildomar, CA
·Verizon FIOS

.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this as not working. The people that come up with these ideas are very smart and understand the limits of their political clout. They will get these types of things passed (using their incredible political power in the US to strong arm other countries) and people will be scared of losing their internet. Because the majority of people still want to "own" music and "it's only 99 cents (or $1.29)" per track they will pay for it.

Obviously new methods of file sharing will need to evolve to thwart this. Aside from that, the only ways this could be a failure for the entertainment industry are if people (en masse) suddenly realize the extent to which they are being ripped off and lied to or if politicians suddenly decide to not pander to special interests. Both of these are basically laughable.

JustOneOpinion

@verizon.net

Tired of Lame Excuses

I am soooo.... tired of lame excuses, made by people who want a free copy of some musician's work that I could just puke and I do wish I could puke right here in front of everyone.

Which part of theft is hard for dslreports? If I were to make a web site that simply stole all of dslreports, Karl, and rebranded it, would that be enough to help you understand the difference between original work and stolen work?

Honestly, I, one of many, simply want honesty and truth to prevail in the market place, so when will music thieves, file sharer's and their ilk, be honest with themselves and the rest of us?

Let me guess... NEVER. I've been around this business since I bought my first Commodore 64 in 1983. Back in the day, we stole software, oh, hell yes we stole software. Half trackin', short trackin', long trackin', we knew how to diddle the bits and find a track on our floppy that would let us steal someone else's software. And we did it, and they are gone.

You figure it out.

footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO

Re: Tired of Lame Excuses

said by JustOneOpinion :

I've been around this business since I bought my first Commodore 64 in 1983. Back in the day, we stole software, oh, hell yes we stole software. Half trackin', short trackin', long trackin', we knew how to diddle the bits and find a track on our floppy that would let us steal someone else's software. And we did it, and they are gone.

You figure it out.
Are you really trying to say that the reason the C64 isn't around any more is because of piracy?
--
It's a trick. Get an axe. - Ash
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

doesnt change the fact that the job of an ISP is to provide the toll booth to the turnpike of the internet. not police what is in the cars, that is the job of the police to check out when tipped off.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
Orangeville, ON
·Wightman Telecom
·Rogers Hi-Speed

These guys dont get the message do they?

Vote did not pass this time, vote wont pass next time.

This is a game against the clock for the RIAA. Their time is almost done. one to two more years only the smart record companies will be left. The ones that deal in advertising sharing. Man, they dont have to distribute now. They make money off of large sites streaming and allowing downloading. No more need for expensive copyright lawyers. No cd factories. All they will have to do is produce.
chronoss2009

join:2008-09-23
·TekSavvy Solutions..

you cant legislate common sense eh sarkozy

Seems to me those politicians didn't show up last time cause if they did they get tied to a bill the majority don't want and guess the bribe money wasn't enough to retire an entire legislature on. COME ONE MPAA BRIBE MORE. Preservering culter my ...

It's more about the man who in office can get bribed the most and leave office without ever having to work or do nothing again. PERIOD. Show me the honest politician that would stand up and say somehting like.

OK ya know the majority of people use p2p and were going to legalize NON commercial use.....HOWEVER on flip side we'll make it a 10 year prison term for COMMERCIAL USE.

That ought to put the nail into almost ALL piracy around the world and then what excuse does joe blow ripping dvdrs and selling them have?

Why would i buy one form him. IF i want fancy labels and extras ill get the real dvdr. If i want to really pay homage to an artist or musician ill see the concert OR movie ( JUST LOWER THE DAMN POP N POPCORN PRICE OMG).

MrFlewKey

@cuma.fr

Internet-BigBrother-Security and Sarko-land!

WRONG!
It takes only a sec to crack ANY WiFi Password! You can hide the name, you can try what you want! As well, you think it is difficult to link to your modem? WiFi or no WiFi!
But that is all not so importent! Here, they try to play big brother!
Create your own VNP-connections and Network with people that you know, or what ever! Create your own Internet! We all have now-a-days computers and we all can share some space on our harddrive
Forums » Kicking People Off The Internet Is Not A Business Model


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